I'm feeling controversial.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

I want to know some personal opinions in here.
Now, personally, i have a lot of gay friends. I also have a lot of very religious friends.
Obviously most of you will know where i'm going with this.
Or part of it anyway.
As I'm sure you're all aware, many religious groups (muslims, christians etc.) are firmly of the belief that homosexuality is wrong, because, as i'm sure you are aware, it says in the Qu'ran, and i believe also the bible but i'm not sure wheter it actually says it in the bible or that's something that the church as a group says, that it is.
I believe the general idea is that Gay people go to hell.
Now, what i'm trying to debate here isnt wether that's nice or wether it's fair to punish people for something which is entirely out of their control because it obviously isn't.

BUT is it right or fair to us to say to someone that their religion is wrong for saying that? Can we morally and ethically put the beliefs of one religion above the beliefs of another by saying that they are right or wrong in saying these things?

Lights.Camera.Action.x.x. Let's see if we can come to a general agreement?

[Jamie]

Yes but arn't they not saying the same thing?

and saying other peoples beliefs are wrong.

[System Malfunction]

the funny thing about this is...
The fact that a large portion of the popularity are living life gay, enjoying it, and not hurting others. The law of 'god' changes. his laws are based on the fact that humanity will not do anything that will destroy itself, such as murder and ****. no religion is wrong since the fact that its just a free way of expressing yourself, just as no religion can be correct.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

i totally agree system. you cant put others forward or behind.
Which brings up another question.

Is it time for some of the older religions to modernize?
The laws of things like this were set out a long time ago, people were probably afraid of things like that because they didnt really know any better.
Should the world be moving on?

[AleksandraStar]

i have to say SM is right
no religion is right and everybody has different views on life
just like we think labels are wrong but other people may like them
we cant say that they are wrong for the most part because there are different types of labels
same with religion

[Aaron]

Westboro Baptis Church think that homosexuals are, in short, disgusting.. they gatecrash homosexual peoples funerals and make their life misery. They regularly do protests throwing signs up like 'God hates gays' and other discriminating words >_< They basically say gay people are going to hell. There are plenty of videos of them going around doing these things, and I think if anything, they're the ones who would be going to hell for making other peoples life’s a misery.

I have the utmost respect for people’s beliefs, and religions – However, when it causes pain and discrimination among people, that’s what I don't agree with, no matter what religion.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

With things like that you have to be careful, and i'm glad you said what you said at the end because often what people do is that they find a group of people acting "for" their religion - a lot like muslim extremist groups - and the impression they can sometimes take away from that is that all people of that religion express the same kind of views and act in the same way, when most of the time they don't.
People, as a whole, in my opinion are very closed minded. That's why we live with the labels we live with.
What they're doing isn't right, and it is awful when people do things like that. But with things like that i personally don't really think that it matters wether the message you're trying to get across is right or wrong.
Methods speak millions.
It's horrible what they're doing and one way or another they will get what they deserve cause one day they will realize what they've done and have to live with it for the rest of their lives. i agree with you TOTALLY Aaron. At the end of the day anything that people do that is hurtful to someone else is wrong.

[ets]

;773']i totally agree system. you cant put others forward or behind.
Which brings up another question.

Is it time for some of the older religions to modernize?
The laws of things like this were set out a long time ago, people were probably afraid of things like that because they didnt really know any better.
Should the world be moving on?

I think this has been the case for a long, long time. It's something I used to regularly debate about with my Relgious Education teacher whilst I was in secondary school, mainly regarding Christianity.

From my understanding of the Bible, admittedly I've never sat and read the whole of it, it's filled with numerous contradictions throughout, from start to finish. I'm sure a lot of you are aware of them, a huge one is the whole God forgives anyone, yet we're still threatened with going to hell for breaking the rules.

One of my biggest gripes with the Bible is that not only are they stories written in a time where our understanding of the world and everything around us was severely limited compared to what it is now, but from those stories Christians have formed seemingly concrete rules by which all who follow the faith must live their lives, and I think ultimately this creates huge flaws within the faith. Coupled with the fact that the Pope regularly changes these Christian rules, and I think it's fair to say that most religions are off pace with the modern world and a lot of its teachings don't apply to life today.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

That is so true.
You have to be so careful about how far you read into the old stories because they ARE so, so off track.

[beyondweird]

Hey, this is a similar issue to what I have to deal with (I run a Christian youth group, so I'm often asked this by members who have gay friends, and are unsure of how they should feel about them)

My usual reply is that before deciding, they shouldn't go off what they have heard the Bible [or indeed, replace this with any religious book] says, but that they should look and discover for themselves.

I'm going to take Christianity as an example here, as it's the one I know about.

Although there are verses in the Old Testament that say homosexuality is wrong, there are equally, if not more, verses that say eating beef is wrong, and I bet you most of those gay-hating Christians eat beef! The rules given are often just rules of the society the books where written in.
However, when we look at the New Testament, there is the famous - "Love your neighbour as you love yourself". You'll find in here that it teaches not to judge, or to discriminate, but to love people no matter who or what they are (if you look in depth, Jesus hung around with what their society saw as 'sinners' because he loved them for the people they were)

I can't speak for other religions, having had no experience of them, but I know for certain that any "Christian" who bullies, insults, or torments someone who is gay because "the Bible said so" doesn't know much about the Bible, or has twisted it for their own purposes.

I guess what I'm getting at is that rather than saying "your religion is wrong" to people, we should see how much they understand their religion - because there's some decent people out there.

(It's a pet hate of mine that people assume Christians hate gay people because most of my closest friends are gay, and I wouldn't change them for the world)

PS Hope this made sense, typing quite passionately there =P xxx

[Lou.Lou]

;767']I want to know some personal opinions in here.
Now, personally, i have a lot of gay friends. I also have a lot of very religious friends.
Obviously most of you will know where i'm going with this.
Or part of it anyway.
As I'm sure you're all aware, many religious groups (muslims, christians etc.) are firmly of the belief that homosexuality is wrong, because, as i'm sure you are aware, it says in the Qu'ran, and i believe also the bible but i'm not sure wheter it actually says it in the bible or that's something that the church as a group says, that it is.
I believe the general idea is that Gay people go to hell.
Now, what i'm trying to debate here isnt wether that's nice or wether it's fair to punish people for something which is entirely out of their control because it obviously isn't.

BUT is it right or fair to us to say to someone that their religion is wrong for saying that? Can we morally and ethically put the beliefs of one religion above the beliefs of another by saying that they are right or wrong in saying these things?

Lights.Camera.Action.x.x. Let's see if we can come to a general agreement?


i noticed you said christians are against homosexuality.
Cathloics and modern protestants i know for a fact are not against homosexuality.
evangelical protestants are tho.
they belive in some cure throught prayer bullsh*t
x

[beyondweird]

Ironic, it's all the Catholics I know that are...maybe it just depends on the specific people and how much they know about their own faith, I guess

[ninaYAYA[x]]

Hey, this is a similar issue to what I have to deal with (I run a Christian youth group, so I'm often asked this by members who have gay friends, and are unsure of how they should feel about them)

My usual reply is that before deciding, they shouldn't go off what they have heard the Bible [or indeed, replace this with any religious book] says, but that they should look and discover for themselves.

I'm going to take Christianity as an example here, as it's the one I know about.

Although there are verses in the Old Testament that say homosexuality is wrong, there are equally, if not more, verses that say eating beef is wrong, and I bet you most of those gay-hating Christians eat beef! The rules given are often just rules of the society the books where written in.
However, when we look at the New Testament, there is the famous - "Love your neighbour as you love yourself". You'll find in here that it teaches not to judge, or to discriminate, but to love people no matter who or what they are (if you look in depth, Jesus hung around with what their society saw as 'sinners' because he loved them for the people they were)

I can't speak for other religions, having had no experience of them, but I know for certain that any "Christian" who bullies, insults, or torments someone who is gay because "the Bible said so" doesn't know much about the Bible, or has twisted it for their own purposes.

I guess what I'm getting at is that rather than saying "your religion is wrong" to people, we should see how much they understand their religion - because there's some decent people out there.

(It's a pet hate of mine that people assume Christians hate gay people because most of my closest friends are gay, and I wouldn't change them for the world)

PS Hope this made sense, typing quite passionately there =P xxx

Yeah i know exactly what you mean. I'm a Catholic and i have tons of gay friends. I hate it when people persecute people, especially when it's in the name of their religion because they give other people who share their religion a bad name, and a lot of the time those people don't deserve to be tarred with that kind of brush. xx

[System Malfunction]

I think religion is just another form of labeling... I mean why can't people just say, I believe in god or I don't believe in god. instead of "i'm catholic/morman/atheist/agnostic?
although I do say, since I am kind of pansexual I guess, that a lot of people do accept me once they know me, a few are sketchy, but most are not.

[beyondweird]

I think there'd be issues with getting rid of the labels because all the religions are so different, but I know what you mean - Christianity as ONE religion has about a billion different versions who don't get on, despite believing basically the same stuff. It's a bit daft, really.

[beyondweird]

*is happy there are other people sharing her opinion*

[TheMitmit]

;767']
BUT is it right or fair to us to say to someone that their religion is wrong for saying that? Can we morally and ethically put the beliefs of one religion above the beliefs of another by saying that they are right or wrong in saying these things?

Lights.Camera.Action.x.x. Let's see if we can come to a general agreement?

That means that there are absolute wrongs and absolute rights, which I don't think there are. Everything is on a continuum. So, no, I don't think it's right as long as they do not actively harm, physically, emotionally, or sexually, the lives of others in its name. Anyone who does is on the BAD end of the continuum.

That being said, I've been on the receiving end of religious discrimination as a homosexual. It is not fun. I made the mistake of trying to start a Gay Straight Alliance in a Catholic school. I was totally demoralized.

[beyondweird]

Darn religious people like that, giving the rest of us a bad name...don't be demoralised, it's those people who have the problems.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

That means that there are absolute wrongs and absolute rights, which I don't think there are. Everything is on a continuum. So, no, I don't think it's right as long as they do not actively harm, physically, emotionally, or sexually, the lives of others in its name. Anyone who does is on the BAD end of the continuum.

That being said, I've been on the receiving end of religious discrimination as a homosexual. It is not fun. I made the mistake of trying to start a Gay Straight Alliance in a Catholic school. I was totally demoralized.

Well, i'm sorry for that, myself am a catholic and went to an all catholic primary school and i cannot believe that people could be so horrible.
well, i can but... yeah.

on behalf of non-homophobic catholics everywhere... i apologize.

[Samual]

i really dont like it when people use religion as examples of anti-homosexuality because most religions have nothing against the idea of two men loving each other

example:

christianity teaches that sex is for the procreation of children, the only reason it says gay sex is wrong is because children cant come from it. it has nothing against two people loving each other

and this idea is changing anyway, my priest is 24 and hes gay, he doesn't have gay sex because no priest has sex anyway... but hes still allowed to be gay!

[Vampi]

Westboro Baptis Church think that homosexuals are, in short, disgusting.. they gatecrash homosexual peoples funerals and make their life misery. They regularly do protests throwing signs up like 'God hates gays' and other discriminating words >_< They basically say gay people are going to hell. There are plenty of videos of them going around doing these things, and I think if anything, they're the ones who would be going to hell for making other peoples life’s a misery.

I have the utmost respect for people’s beliefs, and religions – However, when it causes pain and discrimination among people, that’s what I don't agree with, no matter what religion.

honestly, that's one of the most disgusting things on this planet. They're also the same people that hate "goths" and whatnot. They compare goths to terrorists and homosexuals, because everyone knows homosexuals, goths, and terrorists area all on the same page...:rolleyes:

those people are the ones going to hell.
they are everything wrong in socitey, rolled into one super-douche group.
even my mom thinks they're off they're rockers.
sorry to be blunt.


honestly, it really shouldn't matter. Religion is a personal choice...beliefs are set by the believers.

Like myself: I believe in a few aspects from multiple "religions" and that's how I live my life. Not by one set of rules, but by many, and they're fluid and changing. They allow me to be ME to the best of my abilities.

it's all a very difficult concept.

[ninaYAYA[x]]

honestly, that's one of the most disgusting things on this planet. They're also the same people that hate "goths" and whatnot. They compare goths to terrorists and homosexuals, because everyone knows homosexuals, goths, and terrorists area all on the same page...:rolleyes:

those people are the ones going to hell.
they are everything wrong in socitey, rolled into one super-douche group.
even my mom thinks they're off they're rockers.
sorry to be blunt.


honestly, it really shouldn't matter. Religion is a personal choice...beliefs are set by the believers.

Like myself: I believe in a few aspects from multiple "religions" and that's how I live my life. Not by one set of rules, but by many, and they're fluid and changing. They allow me to be ME to the best of my abilities.

it's all a very difficult concept.


I was looking into WBC last night with my mum.
My mum was sitting there going OMG THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY O.O

And i was just like =O

But seriously, That Guy's granddaughters were like "We know we're right cause everybody hates us" but doesn't them hating everybody else make everybody else right?