"Illegal" downloading

[DiscretelyPsychotic]

How do you feel about it?
Is it really "illegal" if you have no intention to distribute it for a profit but you're simply planning on sharing it with friends?
Most bands will even put up songs for you to download not truly caring about what you're going to do with the music and ASK you to spread the word for them.
Some people say that if you download a song or video for free that you're "cheating out" a producer of money, but isn't true that if you like the song video or movie and get it in crappy quality that you'll most likely seek out a better version and in turn pay for the downloaded song by purchasing the product?
I mean if you sample the music you're more likely to want to actual product, right?
You're not going to go out and buy a random CD of a band you've never listened to or a CD that you're not positive you'll like.

What are your opinions on "illegal" downloading?

[Aaron]

It's a very tough topic to crash down on, they never will defeat it. I do remember a BBC news article a while ago though something saying:

"Internet users who illegally download music and films could be banned from the web under leaked Government proposals. Users would be subject to a "three strikes and you're out" policy, receiving an emailed warning first, followed by a suspension, and then finally termination of their internet contract."

We are still yet to see this in action, probably because it's practically impossible to stop this.

[DiscretelyPsychotic]

No matter what happens people will always find loop holes to get out of trouble.
such as the site called Joox (don't go to it, it gives you trojans), after you watch a movie or episode of a tv show it downloads it straight to your computer for free. The government can't do anything about it because they're not making a profit off of it. Joox makes all of they're money off of the merchandise of their own that they sell.

And the make CD burners built into your computers and they can't take thse away because people use them for data files and burning their own composed music to them.

so as long as bands want publicity, people can upload/download/burn, and sites want moeny, free downloads and distributing aren't going away.

[System Malfunction]

I think illegal downloading is just bull.
like music, if you want to download a couple songs for free, why can't we be allowed too?
if Metalica hadn't thrown such a fit, we would still be able too.
what if you can't recieve a certain movie, anime, or tv show. is it so bad to go watch it online? if not, why can't you download it?
now if you were to download all the stuff, and then sell it for your own profit, I would be against it, but just for your own benefit such as listening or watching the item you downloaded, I do not see as any deal.

[Nathan]

I think that as the music industry is driven largely by profit, and every download that is illegally done loses them money, think of all the money they are actually losing.
One download is about what? 60p? or something... 100 people download A SONG. Thats £60.. Imagine how many songs there are out there and how many times they're being downloaded. The music industry is being 'cheated' out of billions.

Maybe if music wasnt so expensive, people wouldnt have ever felt the need to download illegally?

[pulchritude]

I have nothing against it. Free for me, however I'd be ****ed if I was in the music business.

[Something-Witty]

Yup, same here.
I can't afford to go out and buy a CD every weekend.

But yeah, it must be really tough if you're just starting in the music business and nobody bothers to buy your album, or imagine how ed off you would be if it was leaked.

[Amy]

If I only want one or 2 songs from an artist, I'll use Limewire.
Although If I know I want the whole album I'll use iTunes.
I mean, its easier, less time, and my EMA pays for it. :)

[Jack]

Illegal downloading is a very grey area where the internet is concerned. Techinically, we're not supposed to tape anything off of the telly but we all do. There have been cases of people in the USA and UK who have been fined heavily for downloading music and other 'free' things. Luckily, I live in the Middle East where no one gives a damn. Excellent :]

[Richard]

Tbh, i download just about everything i have be it music, videos, programs etc for free.
unless its a song i really like and want fast, then ill just get it off itunes (Y).
im sure its legal if you only intend to use it for your own entertainment :]

[Alyssa<3]

They should only make it illegal if the artist decides to
Want to make a profit off of it
If it ends up on the internet
Like lime wire and stuff
Because A lot of bands put stuff on there for people

[ninaYAYA[x]]

Actually, the up on illegal downloading is that it isn't illegal provided that it's for personal use.
As long as you don't burn it to a cd and sell it on etc. you're actually allowed to do it.
The problem that the government has with programs like limewire is that to download the songs you're actually acessing someone elses comptuer and taking files off of it. P2P.
Personally, i don't care, cause on programs like limewire there are restrictions to what files people can access. But the government has a huge problem with it.

[Alyssa<3]

The goverment is just probably just mad because they're not filling there pocket books
This world is so about money
I've kind of lost my parents trust and stuff just because Of money issues

[Lou.Lou]

i download sometimes.
but i normaly buy the cd =]
x

[james-hamo]

Did you guys know, its also illegal to send music through MSN/Windows Live Messenger to friends. Something to do with distributing it without permission!

LOL

[Lou.Lou]

i like cds
x

[Claw]

Did you guys know, its also illegal to send music through MSN/Windows Live Messenger to friends. Something to do with distributing it without permission!

LOL

Really?
I just sent about 7 songs over msn just today. Not good! LOL!

But I download music every month through limewire. I don't really care tbh. As long as I don't get a virus, I'm not bothered. I have tons of CDs before I even knew about limewire. I ask for CDs for Christmas and stuff if I need it, but most of the time. I enjoy downloading them. It's so much easier and quicker.

I don't have a job anymore. I need it.

[Vampi]

I download whatever I like that I can get my hands on.

I'm staring off as a CDJ, so I want to make burn CDs of bands I find on the intarwebz.

I do NOT give out CDs free and the like...if someone asks me who a band/artist is, I refer them to their myspace/bebo/whatever page and tell them to go get the album.

I refer people.
But sometimes, I'm not sure I like a band enough to go out and buy the whole album. Downloading makes things easier for me:]

-AHV

[=]]

Tbh, if I hear a song that I like, i'll use Limewire to download it. I am not willing to pay 79p, in iTunes, for a song that can only be listened to in iTunes. Times 79p by nearly 3000, then we have a problem.

I don't see peoples problems. It's not like i'm going to try and make money from it. I download songs to listen to them not to try sell them or fob them off as my own =l
jeez.

x

[geo]

I dowload loads of albums, but then again they're no available to buy in Spain and if I like an album I buy it later on.
So if I haden't downloaded the album I woulden't have bought the CD.
I speand loads of my money on CDs but I still download lol.

[Vonn]

Itunes is bad.
did you know when you buy an album the artist only gets like 3p.
and with singles its like 1p.

its rediculas.

most people in the music business gets there money from touring and merchandise.

[Lauren-Ann--x]

I don't think it should be illegal at all .. i mean whats the harm in making your own cds of songs you like? half the time when you buy an album by one of your favourite bands, theres only a certain amount of songs you actually like, the rest are just "okay". so whats the point in wasting money on a cd that you'll end up liking only about 70% of it?

I use limewire to get nearly all my songs :D (since after all, it's just "sharing" files :D)

[andyhd]

i dont think theres that much wrong with it
i use is as a kind of try before you buy
if i like it enough i will go out and buy the album
if record companys really wanted us to buy albums it shouldnt be £10 plus
i think the only way it will stop is if all bands do as radiohead did with there new album
give it away for what the buyer wants to pay for it

[Pip]

Did you guys know, its also illegal to send music through MSN/Windows Live Messenger to friends. Something to do with distributing it without permission!

LOL

Brb emailing the used seeing if i can send a song to my friend.

[Lou.Lou]

yeahh.
i like cds but i do download
x

[Josh]

I like to buy music by certain artists. I do download a lot, espicially as I have an ipod, and also ive brought a lot of CD's in the past!

[Vampi]

I say I do download some things, but I like having something I can hold in my hands. CD cases, booklets, etc...you can't get those when you download. Album art, all that...you just can't.

I like that aspect of CDs.
they give you art with your art.

-Vampi

[DiscretelyPsychotic]

=]



I'm doing a debate on this
I finished my brief and rebuttal a while ago but I'm still waiting to present.

[XDanielleX]

I use iTunes a lot and sometimes LimeWire... But I agree, CDs are nice. :) I like having an iPod so I can listen to music whenever I want, but there's something in my OCD nature that makes having the CD that I can put on in my room nicer. And like what's been said before, you can't get the artwork when you download.
Plus, you can get viruses when you download. :eek:

[Dann]

I use iTunes a lot and sometimes LimeWire
They're the 2 things I use mainly.

PS. try and avoid bumping threads from nearly 2 weeks ago =P
ta!

x

[Princess.hater]

why waste $15-$20 on a cd that only had 3 good songs?

[Darren]

If I only want one or 2 songs from an artist, I'll use Limewire.
Although If I know I want the whole album I'll use iTunes.
I mean, its easier, less time, and my EMA pays for it. :)


I agree ahaha! I use iTunes for my music too, you get the proper information for them too, it's annoying downloading a song with the wrong title and that buggers up half way through!!

And like with Amy, the government is paying for my songs ;DD

HALLELUJAH FOR EMA!!

[Siriann]

My oppinion on downloading is that I have over 20GB of music that I happen to love.

...all free...

[ninaYAYA[x]]

RANDOM PIECE OF USELESS INFORMATION

I found out the other week that its also illegal to hand out flyers without a liscence.
There's a £70 charge.

[ohsnapitsadam]

I think that bands make more money off of merchandise and ticket sales than actual 'album sales'. although the bands make more money off of the merch and concert sales the record companies don't see any of that money so they have to live off the album sales. so i think that the bands don't care as much as the record companies. :/

[Darren]

I agree with the last part, in my opinion bands only care about the fact that people like their music and are really grateful when someone buys some merch. When i went to see Brokencyde a while back the support band Winch House were quite grateful when i bought their album.



I think that bands make more money off of merchandise and ticket sales than actual 'album sales'. although the bands make more money off of the merch and concert sales the record companies don't see any of that money so they have to live off the album sales. so i think that the bands don't care as much as the record companies. :/

[AmbulanceIsLate]

I copy cds for my friends.
I don't download, if I only like one or two songs off the cd, I don't buy it, it usually means I wont like anything else that band puts out later.
I've had bands give me permission to copy cds and stuff.
Like at warped tour, I went with my best friend, and we didn't really want the cd, but we offered to give the band two dollars, and they just gave us the cd, and told us to copy it and give it to all our friends and call it even.

[Something-Witty]

Is it really "illegal" if you have no intention to distribute it for a profit but you're simply planning on sharing it with friends?
Technically yes. That's what copyright law is for.

I had to write my main essay on filesharing an it's implications on my work this year at college.
I recently worked at an album launch for a fairly well known band, whose album had been leaked the month before in a torrent, needless to say, our sales were very poor, and they couldn't afford to pay me for the gig. Instead of my normal £70 rate I walked off with a beer and a copy of the album. If that album hadn't been available on the internet, and say half the people seeding it went and bought a copy, the band would have made a few hundred even after they'd paid me and my collegues.

Think about the people you're affecting, folks. I'll happily download some from say, U2, who can afford to go off and do world tours, but when it's someone in the back of a pub trying to raise the funds to do their first world tour, not so much.

However, the sad fact of the matter is that live music is far more profitable than recorded music for this very reason. After all, why pay for something when you can download it without even leaving your house? Whereas the atmosphere of a gig is something even a live DVD can't capture.

[PestimisticAngel]

I mean I know it's totally robbing their money and everything that they worked for to get to where their at now. Sometimes we of ourselves dont have the money or other means to get the music also sometimes those songs you cant buy anymore.

[Amy]

If musicians had any sort of common sense, they wouldnt demand to be paid so much, they wouldnt expect a CD priced at over a tenner to sell, and they wouldnt get all divaish if people were still listening to their music.

The passion for the music is gone. People dont do it because they love it. They do it for the money, and I think that's wrong.

Now I live in Bristol, I'm in the heart of the live music scene and I would never attempt to steal from a band getting off to a start.
However, it does not cost THAT much to produce an album. Say youre charging a tenner an album, sell 10 and youve made £100. Sell 100 youve made £1000.
If you dont sell that many, maybe make better music.

ALSO. I think it's stupid when you go to buy one band's album with 15 tracks on for say £7.99, yet another band will release an "album" with 7 tracks on and charge £12.

</rant>

[Sighmon]

I agree ahaha! I use iTunes for my music too, you get the proper information for them too, it's annoying downloading a song with the wrong title and that buggers up half way through!!

You think that's bad..
If mine isn't bought my iTunes library has specific standards.

Must be 256kbps+
Must have high quality album cover (preferably off iTunes Store)
Must have full tagging (composer, year, track number, disc number, artist, album artist, album.etc)
Must be correct length

etc.etc


__
Onto the topic of overpriced music influencing people to illegally share music.. I agree.
If half the decent songs on iTunes didn't get bumped up to AU$2.19 per song I would buy them.

[dubaiindopassion]

we should stop illegal downloading using the softwares

[myparamore]

personally I think the producers make too much anyway and enough people actually go out and buy the product that I don't see what the big deal is. I think I heard some where that illegal downloading has made the music industry loose something like 10% (don't quote me on that). so I don't know.

[Sighmon]

personally I think the producers make too much anyway
When I did my music industry course we had a list of who got what earnings from the sales. I remember the performer (in that case its was the singer) got the very least, while the producer got the most. In most cases I believe it's right. The producers and songwriters should get the most from the sales because they did put the most into it. The performers (unless they're self-produced or wrote the music themselves) pretty much just jump into a recording studio, sing it a couple of times and then everybody else does the rest.

[AmbulanceIsLate]

On average for every $1,000 in merch/cds/etc sold for a band, the band only gets around $23. Some of it goes to making the shirts, cds, etc, some of it goes to everyone in the line, the producers, the managers salaries, etc, but most of it goes to the record label, with the band getting only a very small amount. If you want to support the band, give them money directly at a show or something. I know quite a few bands, both very small no official cd, all the way up to doing national tours (one of them even had one european tour) and I've spoken with quite a few more popular bands (nobody like Lady Gaga status, though, she makes $4 million for every show she plays). They all say they don't care if you pirate their music, or give it to all your friends, and that you should do that and save your money to see them at a show and support them in other ways.

[Sighmon]

Itunes is bad.
did you know when you buy an album the artist only gets like 3p.
and with singles its like 1p.

its rediculas.

most people in the music business gets there money from touring and merchandise.

This isn't entirely true. Well in independent artists anyway.

iTunes pays out a lot more than that per sale to the distributor. It's then up to the distributor what they do with it.
I'd imagine the "big 3" don't give much of those royalties to the artists, if anything at all. However independent artists who use an independent distributor (like TuneCore or ReverbNation) get all or most of the royalties from sales. ReverbNation charges a flat yearly fee to distribute albums to digital stores but gives you 100% of royalties. I'm pretty sure TuneCore is the same.

IIRC it's something like AUD $0.80 (talking about AU Store here) go to the distributor from each single ($1.69) track. I think albums is like $6.00 or something (for a $16.00 album). Not sure if those values are fully correct, but it's something along those lines. I recall the distributor making more from single tracks than full albums.

Sorry to quote such an old post, I just think it's relevant.

[AmbulanceIsLate]

Just a current example, check Victory Records. They were sued by Hawthorne Heights (didn't work well for HH when they tried that) for not giving the full percent to the band. A Day To Remember just tried the same thing, but kissed and made up instead of following through. Another band they had broke up because it was the only way to get out of their record contract. (I was told that in confidentiality so I won't be naming the band)
Some smaller labels are good to their bands (I can name Red Blue Records from New England area, they only sign a few bands, but they do everything they can to help, their bands generally go on to larger labels to expand, or break up but because it's the best thing for them, not because they feel they have to).
Itunes generally keeps a certain percent (I don't know what it is exactly, but it's small, like under 10%). But it still goes to everyone on the chain first, the band last. Even moderate sized bands, like Thursday, have to have full time jobs when they aren't touring.
I've been told by many bands they don't care if you pirate as long as you share them with friends, or go to one of their shows, whatever.

Also the smaller things such as ReverbNation, or PureVolume or whatever, they do give most of the sales to the artist, but they also don't have many sales through those services.

[Darren]

When I did my music industry course we had a list of who got what earnings from the sales. I remember the performer (in that case its was the singer) got the very least, while the producer got the most. In most cases I believe it's right. The producers and songwriters should get the most from the sales because they did put the most into it. The performers (unless they're self-produced or wrote the music themselves) pretty much just jump into a recording studio, sing it a couple of times and then everybody else does the rest.

I agree with Sighmon, when you think about it the writer and the producer do most of the work. Although in modern times songs by the 'mainstream' artists tend to have more than a few writers or a more than a few producers than the olden days. Music isn't quite as it used to be and most artists are taking stuff from older songs or 'recycling' them and adding slightly different stuff to them. The only problem is that the people who write the songs don't get much credit for them unless they are preforming them themselves. Lady Gaga gets a lot of praise for the songs she sings but a lot of them were not written by herself and only preformed by her, in my opinion she is overrated especially from the gay community who generally love her. </drunken rant>

[Sighmon]

I've been told by many bands they don't care if you pirate as long as you share them with friends, or go to one of their shows, whatever.\

This is true too. Piracy these days is seen to be one of the best promo for musicians..

[AmbulanceIsLate]

Offtopic but In reply to the Lady Gaga bit, the biggest reason I don't return to my university's pride alliance meetings anymore is one meeting we had we discussed positive and negative influences on "the cause" and acceptance and whatever bullshit you want to say relating to the lgbt community, and I was the only one who thought Lady Gaga was negative, and that she shouldn't be considered the "leader" of the cause. Obama made a joke about her being "our leader" and if you're on the outside looking in, all she talks about is her being italian, her being bisexual, and her supporting gay marriage. Somehow she always forgets that it isn't LGB it's LGBT. She's not the only one who forgets that, but I just don't think she deserves to be considered anything in the way of a LGBT leader. I don't think anyone deserves that title. Maybe Harvey Milk did at one point. But he's dead so he can't really claim the title anymore. I was never alive when he was so I can't really say anything much, but he just did way more than Lady Gaga. (Maybe I'm also the only person that isn't falling all over her feet. I'm not a fan but I don't hate her either, I just don't understand why she's considered to be such an idol.

[Darren]

I'd say I'd dislike Lady Gaga but I don't, it's just how everyone is so obsessed over her and when I say everyone I mean the gays. She's the Madonna of our age and everyone just needs to chill the flipping hell down, she's not a Goddess so stop worshipping her like one, there's other music too.

I think it's the horrible outfits that she claims is 'fashion', you can't throw **** together and pass it off as fashion love.

[PestimisticAngel]

I dont hate her. But I hate things that get too much attention. It's like Twilight, not that serious! lol